In this episode, we spoke with Kathleen Mahamad, a spirited explorer who embarked on an extraordinary journey in France. Initially driven by her desire to immerse herself in the French language, Kathleen's adventures took an unexpected turn as she eventually found herself working as a tour guide at the Vimy Ridge Visitor Education Centre. Her story will inspire you to embrace life's adventures with open arms.
Emily Harrington: Before we begin, we would like to recognize that this podcast is hosted from the traditional and unseated territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe. We at CBIE are grateful to have the opportunity to learn, work, and live on this land.
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Emily: Welcome to Audio Alumni, a podcast that features both Canadian and international voices sharing their lived experiences of going abroad. These conversations offer insight into the opportunities, the challenges, and the transformational impact that an international experience can bring. In this season, we are talking about working and traveling overseas.
You'll hear personal stories from our guests about what inspired their travels, what obstacles they had to overcome, and ultimately how their time abroad shaped their lives today. This podcast is brought to you by the Canadian Bureau for International Education or CBIE in partnership with International Experience Canada. CBIE is a national nonprofit association dedicated to supporting the Canadian international education sector in its global engagement through advocacy, capacity building, and partnerships.
International Experience Canada or IEC gives Canadian citizens aged 18 to 35 the opportunity to work and travel abroad. IEC provides youth with a path to a work permit or visa to work and explore one of the 30 countries and territories. Taking part in IEC allows youth to gain valuable international work experience while exploring the world and finding inspiration. My name is Emily Harrington and I am so excited to be your host this season for Audio Alumni.
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Emily: Today, we're speaking with Kathleen Mohammed, whose love for the arts motivated her to build her French language skills by traveling to France, first, to study the language and then become a tour guide at the Vimy Ridge Visitor Education Center. Kathleen firmly believes that all of life's adventures are waiting for those who are willing to take risks and grab opportunities. Hi, Kathleen, it is so nice to meet you. I am so excited to spend some time chatting with you today.
Kathleen Mohammed: Yes, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Emily: For anyone who does not know you already, can you give us a brief introduction?
Kathleen: Yes. My name is Kathleen. I'm originally from Edmonton, Alberta, but I currently live in Victoria. I had my international broad experience in France in 2018. I studied there and I worked there for a year.
Emily: That is fantastic. Now, what drove you to take on that experience in France?
Kathleen: I always wanted to live somewhere where French was the official language. Growing up in Edmonton, I'm from an anglophone family, but I did French immersion. I was always learning French at school, but I felt like I never really got to fully immerse myself. I always, growing up, had this drive to be living somewhere where you would speak French every day. I looked at a few different countries, but, obviously, France is the natural call for the language. For me, it was definitely the language push to go there.
Emily: Wonderful. Now, what was the process like of making that move?
Kathleen: I had originally gone through an exchange through my school, so University of Alberta. I spoke with an exchange advisor and looked at a few different schools that were directly connected to the U of A. There were a few that already had an established agreement that I could go take classes there and it would be transferred back to my degree, which was a Bachelor of Science at the U of A. I looked through a few different schools, and there were actually more than I thought there would be.
There was probably 10-plus different schools that I looked at, and I wanted one that was outside of Paris just so that I would be a little bit more rural and have the chance to really fully immerse myself without being in too much of an international city. I ended up finding a school in Lille, which is the northeast of France, and applied through my school, U of A. I sent an application through them, and so it kind of was very much facilitated by my university.
Emily: That's wonderful. It's amazing that the schools provide those kind of opportunities for you to really dive into a language experience that you wouldn't get otherwise. You're living in France, studying in France, can you walk us through a little bit, what that year was like for you, especially learning in a secondary language?
Kathleen: I could go on forever. It was amazing. I did already speak French, so I had a very-- I wouldn't say elementary, but I didn't have my conversational French, so that's what I really went to go learn. When I arrived, it was my first time in France, my first time in Europe. It was a lot to learn. I remember arriving in Paris and I had no idea where to go. The time change, it was the first time I was experiencing jet lag at the same time.
I finally found my way onto a train and made it to Lille. The first few days at school were very interesting. The one thing that always sticks with me is that, in France, the first floor is not actually the first floor. The first floor that we call it for them is the [French language] which is like the welcoming floor. The first floor is actually their second floor. Needless to say, I missed all of my first classes because I was going to the wrong rooms. It was interesting to learn to try and find my courses.
I tried to take a Spanish class and I didn't realize that it would be through the intermediary of French and not English. That was a fun thing to realize as well. I was there for four to five months during the school year. I opted to take classes with the French students, not with the international students, just so I could really get that experience of blending in with them. That was really eye-opening. I took a lot of cross-cultural classes. I took some sociology. Coming from a Bachelor of Science, it was completely eye-opening for me.
Emily: Interesting to know about how they define their floors differently because it's one of those little things that you wouldn't know until you get there.
Kathleen: Oh yes, I made that mistake so many times. By the end of it, I would just laugh myself when I would walk up the extra staircase. [laughs] Now, I've gone back to visit since and it's just funny stepping back on it. There were so many little things like that, that you just have to pick up in there outside of your norm. That was the fun thing to realize and start to learn
Emily: Now, what were some of the biggest challenges getting settled into a new country and a new school where you don't know anybody?
Kathleen: I think challenges for school and settling in was first opening a bank account, didn't know how to do that, didn't know how to spend money over there. I was connected with my school to be able to do that. Definitely coming into a place where you didn't know anyone was very scary. I remember leaving Canada. I felt very anxious about it. Honestly, all of that kind of left right as I arrived into France, especially being in the school environment.
I was in a university housing where there was lots of French students from all over France. There was lots of international students. I felt like, immediately, I was just thrown into a group of people who were exactly like me, who wanted to travel and educate themselves. It was definitely very challenging and very anxiety-inducing when I was planning it. Once I got there, everything settled into place.
There were many troubles along the way with missing flights, like I said, finding the right rooms, making friends as well in another language. I remember French is not my first language. I would often say things in the wrong context. I think it was just something funny to get over. It's so interesting to try and be yourself in another language, in another culture. You have to learn all these new cultural rules and boundaries. It was a fun process to do, but it was happily challenging, I'll say.
Emily: All of those initial logistics and those small culture shocks or something, I don't think we give enough attention to-- Like you said, even just being able to open a bank account or set up your cell phone and then immerse yourself into trying to make new friends, figuring out what making new friends look like.
Kathleen: Yes, definitely something we don't-- Yes, we didn't really touch on that especially. I feel like I was very lucky since I did it in school. I had pre-departure meetings and I had a coordinator that I could reach out to, but there were so many things that you just don't expect and you don't know. France especially has a lot of cultural rules and unspoken rules that people follow. You just have to pick them up while you're there. Yes, all the challenges of opening the phone and the bank account and whatnot, it's all part of the adventure though, but it's exciting to move out of your box and learn things outside of the norm as well.
Emily: Now, what would you say is one of the most exciting things you got to do as part of that experience?
Kathleen: It's going to be really hard to pick one.
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Kathleen: There might be a few. I ended up making a bunch of friends who were from France, which I feel incredibly lucky and they're still friends to this day. One of them was from the south of France and lived right outside Nice. She ended up taking me to Cannes for the Cannes Film Festival. That was an incredible experience and one that I never, ever would've imagined myself doing in my life.
I guess another highlight for me was through that experience in France, I ended up getting a job at Vimy Ridge, which is the Canadian First World War memorial in northern France. I was there for four months and it was actually the Armistice 100, so it'd been 100 years since the end of the First World War. While I was there, we got to host our own prime minister, Justin Trudeau. I got to visit with him and give him a tour of the site as well. Definitely a lot of experiences that I never would've otherwise imagined myself having.
Emily: You were able to get support along the way from the University of Alberta and from the school in France. How integral were those supports to being able to give you the tools you needed to make that transition and then supporting you throughout your time in France?
Kathleen: Yes, they were definitely very integral to my time. I think they really supported me in leaving the country for the first time, going to Europe for the first time essentially, and feeling like I always had someone to connect with if anything else happened. I think also just being in a school environment made me feel very safe and made me know that there was lots of people around me doing the exact same thing, whether they were from Edmonton or Canada or if they were from Zimbabwe.
It was just, we all had the same mentality that we were going through it together. A, yes, going through the school and having the resources from them, but also just being in an environment where there were lots of other people doing it like me definitely helped me do it for the first time. If I were to go again, I'd feel more than confident to do it on my own now. I think for people that feel a little bit apprehensive or anxious about going off on their own, going through a school is definitely a great option.
Emily: I know there are so many more things we can cover about your year in France, so I feel like we may end up flip-flopping a bit, but how did that experience impact your career choices that have led you into a career being able to support opportunities like this?
Kathleen: It completely pivoted my career path. When I had left to France, I was at the U of A for a Bachelor of Science. I was studying chemistry. I had originally wanted to do pharmacy or medicine. Then when going to the school in France, their faculties are a little different. You couldn't take a class in the faculty of science and the faculty of arts at the same time. I wanted to branch out and I took courses solely in the faculty of arts.
I took sociology. I took psychology. I took intercultural communication, which is probably one of the most valuable courses I've ever taken. Through that experience and just being in a new cultural environment, it really opened my eyes up to travel, to tourism, to interculturalism, to sociology especially, which I ended up minoring my degree in. Through that, being in France as well, that pivoted my job into working at Vimy Ridge, which I was a tour guide. It started me into tourism.
Coming back to Canada, I did finish my Bachelor of Science, but I knew that I wanted to stay working and travel. I found a job with the government of Canada, with International Experience Canada, which was a wonderful experience. Through that has brought me to where I am now, which is working for Destination Greater Victoria. We're a tourism travel board for the agency.
I truly think without my experience in France, my path would've never led me here. I'm so happy to be where I am now, but I would've never known that this door could have been opened or there was even careers available in this type of thing. Now, I'm really happy that five years later since I've done my international exchange, I'm still thinking and talking about travel each and every day.
Emily: It really leans into the way that going abroad enriches your life. Even if it's for a short period like a year or two that, like you said, it totally pivoted your career direction, which I think is so wonderful and so fascinating that you were able to take so much away from it.
Kathleen: Yes, it definitely showed me a new door that I didn't even know was there. Yes, I think the value of international travel is unknown for a lot of Canadians I think as well. Just having that on my résumé was always a talking point. Every single time I went in for a job interview, it was always brought up, and it was something very positively received. I think that there's always a little bit of apprehension if people see a gap on their résumé or if you're not staying in the same sort of career. Personally from my experience, I found that it was such a benefit and people were always very intrigued to hear about my experience.
Emily: We haven't talked a little bit about how you were able to connect with friends and family from back home while you were away. Was anyone able to visit you? What was that part of the experience like? Because I think there is a lot said to what it's like to throw your world for a loop like that.
Kathleen: I remember leaving and looking out the plane leaving from Edmonton and I just looked out and I was like, "This is the last time I'm going to see Canadian soil for a year. This is the last time I'm going to be able to walk down the street and see my friends." It was definitely scary. I love my family. I love my friends back home. I was sad to leave them, but I was excited for a new experience.
The time change I found was a little tough just because I would wake up and they were nearing their dinner, but we would talk every day. Then I started to realize when I first got there, I was talking to them all the time. I was always being very aware of what the time change was in Canada and connecting with them every single day. It was very easy to do that. I think with FaceTime and with all of the technology that we have now, it's much easier than it would've been 20 years ago.
At least, personally, I found that as the time went on, I started to delve into my life in France a little bit more and obviously still being connected with my family and friends back home, but I felt like I could build new connections in France that made me feel as happy and loved in a group environment. I did go back home halfway through the year to deal with some visa issues but to visit family as well.
I did have some of my family and friends come visit me, which was amazing. I was so excited to do that too because I felt like I got to show them my new home. Now, I feel like I have a home in France forever as well. I got to build the friends and family that I have there who are still friends of mine to this day. Yes, it was sad leaving them and not being able to speak with them all the time, but I got to build these relationships on the other side that I still get to keep, which is amazing.
Emily: Now, outside of school while you were there, what are some of the things that you did to really immerse yourself in the culture? I don't think we've taken a dive into that yet. I know you got the job with Vimy Ridge, which is so stinking cool. How do you really immerse yourself in building friendships and building those relationships that are now such an important piece of your life outside of those four walls of the education institution?
Kathleen: When moving there, back home, I wouldn't say I'm an introverted person, but I love to be at home and I love to go to bed early and hang out with my friends here. I don't go out very much. When I was in France, I set a rule to myself that for the first few weeks or maybe even months that I was there, I would say yes to absolutely everything within a safe reason.
Whenever there was a social event or a school event, I just went to every single one. I went to a language. After school, people who wanted to speak English would go to the bar just to speak with international students or people that wanted to practice their French or joining a running club or joining a soccer club or volunteering with my residential association. I really knew that in order to make friends there, you would have to try pretty hard, at least to make friends with the locals.
My role for myself was just to say yes to everything. After a few weeks, you start to recognize the same faces. It became very, very natural. I do feel I was lucky in the people that I did meet, but I will say, I did really put an effort in to see the same people and to show up to all the events even when I was so tired. I'd rather be home drinking tea, but at least for the few weeks just to establish those connections. That was really helpful.
Emily: You've got such a neat story because you had a hub to help foster your experience going abroad, where a lot of the people we talk to, there is really a gap that they have these supports that help them work through the visa and all of these things to get them there. One of the pieces of conversation we really circled back to a lot with these chats is the topic of mental health and finding new ways to support your mental health when you are abroad. From the sound of it, you're just naturally including things that you did that really are good tools to support your mental health. When you are in these new experiences, you're totally out of your comfort zone and you know no one.
Kathleen: I definitely think that I had a good experience with the support and whatnot, but I do think that I push myself to keep myself stimulated and finding the right people. Although we had the support of U of A like my school coming with the time change and just with the natural instance of just being in a different country, I didn't always have someone that I could call.
I think just finding people that are in a similar situation, you and I know it's difficult for me to stay on because I did come with support. I think even if you're studying abroad, there's always these expat Facebook groups. Especially in major cities, there's lots of young people coming from other countries. Even though you don't know each other, it's very easy to find that connection. You'd instantly realize, "Oh, you're from another country. What are you doing here?"
It was just very easy to open up a connection because you're all in the same situation. The same way if you're abroad or you're in another city and you see someone from your hometown. You might not know them. Once you realize that you're from the same place and you're in the same situation, it's very easy to connect. I think it's just finding people that are in a similar situation to you. It's not as hard as it might seem, especially if you're in a major hub city.
Emily: Now, let's transition a little bit back to what you're doing now and how all of that ties into that experience and the way that you're now able to support other people. Are you able to tell us a little bit about what you do now? Because not everybody goes down the rabbit hole of internet sleuthing like I do. [laughs]
Kathleen: No, of course. It's very multifaceted in my organization. I work for Destination Greater Victoria. Essentially, we're the tourism board or the destination marketing organization for Victoria, where I live now, which is a beautiful, lovely place. We work on bringing travel and tourism to Victoria. It's the opposite of what I did before where I was traveling. Through International Experience Canada, I was promoting youth to go work abroad and travel abroad.
Now, I'm in a position where I'm promoting international travelers and domestic Canadian travelers to come visit us in Victoria. Personally, I work with local businesses to bring more tourism to them. My organization as a whole, we do travel, trade shows internationally. We have a large marketing organization that does different campaigns to promote our area, but I earned and I was able to do this role because I have a background of travel and tourism.
I understand maybe the mentality of travelers that are coming to us. In my day-to-day role, when I'm speaking with local businesses in my area, I'm able to bring some of that insight that I gained through my international experiences to them. That's it in a nutshell. I definitely don't think I would've been able to go down this path without my experience 100%.
Emily: I love to see that you were able to make that transition because you said you specifically focused on living in a smaller town when you went to France that you didn't want the big city that, now, you really get to focus on local businesses and supporting that community feeling again, which is such a neat tie-in.
Kathleen: Yes, that's a good point. I guess I didn't really see that till now.
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Kathleen: I think being in a smaller area there, maybe it sparked my interest of being in a smaller area and working with local businesses. It's definitely pushed me that way. It has really tied in everything really perfectly into where I find myself now.
Emily: For anyone who is looking to potentially come and see what Canada has to offer, can you tell me a little bit about why you would encourage them to look at Victoria, whether it's for long term or if they're just looking to explore the country?
Kathleen: Having lived in multiple different countries now and multiple different cities across Canada, personally, I found myself in Victoria just for the beauty of it. I feel so lucky to be in such a beautiful area. We're surrounded by oceans. On my walk to work, you'll see little sea lions or seals. I'm a very big outdoors person and we have mountains near us. We have skiing near us. We have trails where you can go mountain biking and road biking and paddling and kayaking in the same day. With all the beauty that Victoria has to offer, the local feeling here is absolutely incredible.
We're a small, big city, we say, but it really feels like just a little hometown. We have lots of local businesses and we have an incredible community feeling here. There's lots of different organizations and associations that you can belong to. There's always different neighborhood events. There's different markets going on. I feel like there's people from all over the world here and all over the country, but anyone who comes here just tells you that it feels like home. We're so blessed to have beautiful nature and beautiful scenery all around us, but the people here really make it really amazing.
Emily: Very cool. Some of the things you've mentioned and I've heard in other conversations too is that those parts of BC are really areas where you find a lot of natural diversity and multiculturalism. How has that been something that you're able to pull into your world and pull into your job and whatnot?
Kathleen: Well, coming from Edmonton, Edmonton was a very multicultural place. Even when I was in France, it was very multicultural. I really pulled from those experience from my local town. I would say that being in Victoria and being in BC, the connection to Indigenous culture is much larger here. I feel like I'm truly living on their lands.
I'm learning new things about the area and I'm learning about the history of the area. Multiculturalism, in a way, yes. I think that, really, the big highlight, especially Victoria and anyone will feel it when they come here, is just the presence and the recognition of Indigenous culture. It's so tied in and we feel that. We're living on their home and we feel a part of it as well. That to me is the big key of this area.
Emily: Kathleen, now that we've gone down all of these really cool rabbit holes about your current experience, your experience in France, what is the biggest takeaway you would give to someone who is questioning whether or not they should go on an international experience?
Kathleen: I think the biggest takeaway that I would give based on my own experiences is that you don't know what's on the other side. It's so easy to stay in your comfort zone and go as normal. Life will be great if you stay and you do the same things that you're used to, but there's so much adventure and excitement and opportunity that lies on the other side. All the doors that open the new paths in your life, you'll only be able to access them if you walk towards them and if you take the plunge to have those experiences.
While it might be very scary and frightening and maybe anxiety-inducing, and I agree, I completely experienced all those things, there's so much excitement and there's so much possibility on the other side. You'll only know if you give it a shot. You can always come back and you don't have to stay. You're able to turn around and go, but I'd say take the plunge. That's my line.
Emily: [laughs] Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me. I am absolutely inspired by your story. Like I said, the way that there is such a strong connection between your time abroad and what you're doing now. For anyone who may want to learn more about you or explore beautiful Victoria, where is the best place for them to find you?
Kathleen: 100% definitely. My LinkedIn, Kathleen Mohammed. Easiest way to connect with me. I have my email up there too. Then also my Instagram, which is Kathleen Sarah. I post everything I do traveling. I'm by no means a public influencer, but I love to chat. If anyone's afraid or just has questions about my experience or what they might go through, I love giving advice or even just chatting with people who are curious.
Emily: Thank you so much. I am so thrilled that we had the opportunity to talk and I can't wait to figure out when I can get my butt out to beautiful BC.
Kathleen: I can't wait to see you when you're here. We'll happily, happily have you. Thank you so much.
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Emily: That ends this episode of Audio Alumni. We want to thank our listeners for joining us today. We also want to thank our guests for their openness in sharing their stories and our partner, International Experience Canada, for collaborating with us this season. Be sure to subscribe to this podcast for new episodes and visit us at cbie.ca for more content about international education in Canada. Until next time.
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